Chen Zhiwu: Liberation of marriage, finance makes individuals more free

Author: Hsu Wen Miao, Yang Xi, title figure from: Vision China

Guests in this issue: Chen Zhiwu, Produced by: Tencent News × Choosing You

</ iframe> Xiaocai said: The probability of meeting Professor Chen Zhiwu in various economic and financial forums in Mainland China in the past ten years is not too low. The professor of finance is mostly in suits and slacks in public. Speeches and debates are always polite. He will not fight with others, but his sincere and humorous speech will occasionally make the audience feel great. laugh. However, Chen Zhiwu is a latecomer among the group of economists shining with the rise of China’s reform and opening up. In the early and mid-1980s, when a group of young economists participated in China’s economic reform decision-making consultations and flung Fang Chen, Chen Zhiwu, a young man from the Chaling countryside in Hunan, was still using it on the campus of the National University of Defense Technology in Changsha Mathematical tools for solving engineering problems, fascinated by the sensational “Towards the Future” series, and was deeply shocked by Friedman’s “Free Choice”. Chen Zhiwu received his PhD in economics from Yale in 1990, and then taught at the University of Wisconsin-Madison and Ohio State University. He was promoted to professor of finance in 1999 and returned to Yale for tenure. The turning point happened around 2002. He began to pay attention to the topic of China’s financial development, and then he encountered a question: how to understand and explain finance from the perspective of ordinary people? Chen Zhiwu offers financial economics courses at Tsinghua University and Peking University. The content of the courses is basically the same as his previous doctoral courses taught at several universities in the United States—assuming that various financial markets are well developed, the only thing to do Pricing financial assets,How to operate in the capital market, how to use securities products to better allocate investment and risk, etc. The focus of the lecture is to derive financial mathematical models and market economic models. Unfortunately, the course response was average. “Several times, I realized that for domestic students who are developing financial markets, these theories are not only very advanced, but also very disconnected from their lives and future employment.” Chen Zhiwu said. These teaching experiences and observations made him think: if today’s Chinese people are not yet able to select and find the most ideal products among many credit, insurance, investment, pension, and financial products like consumers in the financial theory model In a more traditional ancient and modern society, how do people live and how to avoid all aspects of risks and make arrangements for life in the elderly and the disabled? For people in traditional societies without external financial markets, is financial economic theory applicable? From this point, Chen Zhiwu took finance as part of a larger society to understand finance and society. “Fortune” You talked to Zhiwu Chen, It is from the perspective of “people” to understand complex finance. It will give you an anchor point. From this anchor point, you will observe the world coordinate system completely different. The following is the actual record of the interview. Due to space limitations, the actual record has been deleted. “Study money and you will find the origin that drives human behavior” Ma Teng: You first studied computer. Why did you choose to study finance after you came to Yale? Chen Zhiwu: When I applied for Yale, I just wanted to develop in the direction of mathematical politics and mathematical economics, and use mathematics to study topics in politics and economic systems. When I arrived, I met Stephen A. Ross, and Jonathan E. Ingersoll, Philip H. Dybvig, these people are very famous in the global financial community. They said that you might as well study finance. In this case, you can use mathematics and deal with money and economy. So I tried it later. After trying it, I found an area that was still quite interesting. Ma Teng: After studying finance, have you changed the way you look at the world and your values? Chen Zhiwu: Values have been formed since childhood and have not changed much. The biggest change is letting me look at the world, society, relationships,Social, cultural, and historical perspectives have changed. Maybe many people think it ’s raining here, there ’s an earthquake there, there ’s a drought here, there ’s a flood there, the world (very noisy) … Especially today that the United States has Trump as president and Britain has to leave the European Union. Abe is the longest-serving Prime Minister of Japan since the Meiji Restoration, and he now has such high public support. What is going on in this world? Looking back, my financial studies and research have helped me the most. Still, it allows me to have a framework and a perspective to see clearly why the world has come this far. Why do all aspects of human behavior, statements, etc., look like this, there is an additional perspective to understand and analyze the world that is core to me. Ma Teng: Studying the Institute of Finance will not make you very rational, but less caring? Chen Zhiwu: Actually, this is not the case. Marriage and love, family, interpersonal relationships, and etiquette exchanges, which I studied, are all aspects of life that involve very core human affairs, not purely talking about money directly. The reason for this is that once we look at the analysis of the world from an economic and financial perspective, it seems to me that we have found the essence of human behavior. It becomes clear at a glance to extend the understanding of other behaviors and results based on what is essential. What impressed me a lot was that in 1990, Bush was running for president. In a presidential debate, when the Bush Bush campaign launched a television commercial, the television commercial broadcast a passage from a black bank trial in Massachusetts. The black man said one of the most classic words: When he was asked by a judge in court, “Why are you robbing a bank?” He said, “A bank is a rich place.” Later, the Americans said that this man was too classic! If you want to understand human behavior and human society, you have to see where the money comes from, and you have to track where the money comes from. From the perspective of money, you have to track people ’s behavior from the perspective of benefits. force. Because no matter whether it is a crime, a political campaign team, a company or a family, the final starting point is to start with money and start with the pursuit of interests. You can’t do anything without money. In this case, finance is the topic of money. Understanding the interpersonal relationship, society, country, and history from the perspective of finance, you have found the place that drives the origin of human behavior. Then Expand from this place. If you like love, you want human society to be full of emotions.If you are full of friendship, you can understand these things from money as a starting point, but can help you find the answer better. <img class = "" data-ratio = "0.662963" data-src = "https://mmbiz.qpic.cn/mmbiz_jpg/vE1zdzwTb4rcibpibHShPQ1GYwOaibnjCWibMAqfpxiaWv60rMia9g1JjuODGqfV1ic5rCXyxMibs2w3JLjmW1ialSSZZnw/640?wx_fmt=jpeg" data-type = "jpeg" data- w = "1080" _width = "516.594px" src = "https://img.huxiucdn.com/article/content/201912/17/1717426306.jpg?imageView2/2/w/1000/format/jpg/interlace/ 1 / q / 85 "crossorigin =" anonymous "data-fail =" 0 "style =" "> Ma Teng: Finance seems to be a very material aspect. But a book you really like is Friedman’s “Free Choice”. Why do you like this book? Is this another purpose of your study of finance? Chen Zhiwu: At that time I saw Friedman’s introduction to what the economy is and what good institutional arrangements should look like. He talked about a core human behavior and the pursuit of goals, which is freedom of choice. Because if we observe our own behaviors and feelings, when what you do is the result of your own choice, then you are more passionate, more able to enjoy the results from these things, and have a sense of accomplishment, and give society The results will be the best. Ma Teng: More experience the richness of life. Chen Zhiwu: The experience is even deeper. It is for these reasons that later I want the emergence and development of finance in human history to have a very strong relationship with the tolerance of a country to personal choice and free choice. A society full of freedom of choice is often a society with a very developed finance, because without the conditions for a well-developed finance, individual freedom and freedom of choice are difficult to become a reality. Ma Teng: Yes, many friends around me often talk about the term financial freedom. One day, when financial freedom is achieved, we have to go out and see the larger world outside, or be with someone I love more. Wait.What do you think of the term financial freedom? Chen Zhiwu: Financial freedom is the key foundation of personal freedom. Because there is no financial freedom, as we Chinese have said for a long time, it ’s the meaning of man to buckle his waist. If you do n’t even eat meals, your life is not guaranteed. In that case, human dignity and personal integrity , Personal personality, these cannot be supported. In order to survive under those conditions, people often do things that would not be done in other scenarios, so the term financial freedom is quite correct. Essence of marriage: love first or interest alliance? Ma Teng: I talked with Feng Tang some time ago. He said that the medical conditions are very good now, and people’s life will be very long. Also thinking about the marriage system, what do you think? Chen Zhiwu: Of course I know a lot of young people, including our older generation who are a little older, and there are many poems in the Chinese world, saying that marriage is the crystallization of love. Give us a feeling, the reason for marriage … Ma Teng: It is because of love. Chen Zhiwu: Yes, it is to help love find a place to stay and find a home. I have recently said in some books and many lectures that this understanding is completely wrong. Human marriage was invented from the beginning, it was not for love, in fact it has nothing to do with love. Love is officially launched by modern talents, and it is a new relationship between men and women. Marriage has never been related to love. It is the creation of modern people to associate marriage with love. Take a concrete example. In Chinese, the word love did not exist until about 1898, and Chinese society did not say so. Ma Teng: But there are many other words, such as love. Chen Zhiwu: But, if you don’t make it sound good, love is the instinctual need of animals, or the result of androgens and estrogen production, any animal will have. But in addition to the instinctive opposite-sex attraction reaction of animals, love also has the dimensions of spiritual communication and communication, both physical and thoughtful and spiritual. These two different dimensions constitute the love in the romantic sense we are talking about today. . There is love and affection in Chinese, but it is not the same as the love we are talking about now. This is why I used to say that China has always had only marriageBut no love. Many people say that the story of the Cowherd and Girl Weaver has been widely spread in the folk at least from the Han Dynasty. Until now, it has been told as a love story. In my opinion, the story of the Cowherd and Girl Weaver that has been passed down for more than 2,000 years is a story that reflects more than two thousand In the year people lacked these in their real life, they could only yearn for … Ma Teng: More luxurious. Chen Zhiwu: It’s not just luxury, it’s almost invisible in reality. The reason is quite simple. You can see that adopting children to prevent old age is so deep and basic in the Chinese concept. As a parent, I have a plan for having a child. Through these arrangements, my retirement and my illness are reliable, and my children are my protection. If the child is pursuing love, such as finding a boyfriend who ca n’t have a good future, I will think, for many years, she has supported her in kindergarten, the best primary school, and let her go to Peking University, Tsinghua or Yale, Harvard, Having made so many investments in her, and she wasted my entire investment in her in the pursuit of so-called love, how could I tolerate it? This is why it was only possible to have arranged marriages. I grew up in rural Hunan. I saw with my own eyes that, like the brothers around me, they were all arranged. Until they got married, the two had no chance to talk, let alone fall in love. In the original arranged marriage, the culture of the society did not encourage men and women to communicate and talk before marriage, because marriage was not for love, but for the benefit of life, illness, and death. How could there be love before getting married? The so-called marriage is based on love, which is just the product of modern people (s) . <img class = "" data-ratio = "0.662963" data-src = "https://mmbiz.qpic.cn/mmbiz_jpg/vE1zdzwTb4rcibpibHShPQ1GYwOaibnjCWibJ1uibHicUQ7kUfU9O6lTXprPLegegNcEtuexw+ZA+ZA+ZA+ZA0 w = "1080" _width = "516.594px" src = "https://img.huxiucdn.com/article/content/201912/17/1717426270.jpg?imageView2/2/w/1000/format/jpg/interlace/ 1 / q / 85 "crossorigin =" anonymous "data-fail =" 0 "style =" "> Ma Teng: It ’s more luxurious, but I still feel like it. For example, Zhuo Wenjun and Sima Xiangru have no children. Li Qingzhao and their couple also have no children, but they fell in love for a time. Chen Zhiwu: Let me clarify that not only the Chinese, but some people in other human societies have love, but that is not a common phenomenon in society. Because language is a very interesting thing. If one thing, one thing, or one kind of interpersonal relationship hasn’t become a universal phenomenon in society, language won’t invent a word to describe this phenomenon. Even if someone creates a new word, if everyone does not have the same experience and the same feelings in life, the word invented by one person cannot be accepted, let alone inherited or transferred. Ma Teng: I still believe that love has always existed, but from a historical perspective, marriage and love have been separated to some extent? Chen Zhiwu: Even if there is love, it is not a common phenomenon. Not only Chinese society, but European society as well, all have marriage but no love. In Europe, for example, until the end of the eighteenth century, even educated people distinguished love from marriage. Then I think that a marriage with love is very strange. It feels weird. How can marriage be linked to love? European society before the 18th century also regarded love as a confidante or a prostitute, as the novel “La Traviata” tells, people understand love like this, not Related to marriage. So it ’s not just Chinese society. Human societies have not previously linked marriage to love. In the past, marriage was an institutional arrangement for solving life risks, realizing the exchange of benefits, and realizing the allocation of resources, not an emotional creation. (System) . As we said in the song “Couple Gives Home to Both”, “You plow the field and come and weave the cloth.” Ma Teng: It is the division of labor. Chen Zhiwu: The marriage that the Chinese speak of has always been associated with men and women weaving, because men can do rough work, muscles, and women can do fine work. In this way, a man and a woman are based on marriage to form a family, and then the male and female labor advantages are brought into play. If we continue to sing this song down, “You plough the fields to come and weave, and I will bring water to you to water the garden.”Next, “Although the cold kiln is broken, it can withstand the wind and rain.” It means that no matter what happens in the future, whether it is sick, old, or whatever, we will not change our heart. You help me, I help you, it is a risk exchange Vision … This risk exchange vision for marriage is clearly expressed. Then it is “love between husband and wife is bitter and sweet”. Even in the vision of the relationship between men and women expressed in “Tianxian Match”, in fact, the emotional relationship is the third, not the first, nor the second most important. If we talked about the use of male and female labor advantages and mutual risk assistance, if there is still thought or time left, then the love of husband and wife can be used as a purpose … Of course, this is not just China. Other societies are similar. <iframe height = "400" width = "710" src = "https://v.qq.com/iframe/player.html?vid=r3036j9sm0g&tiny=0&auto=0 "frameborder =" 0 "allowfullscreen =" "> </ iframe> Video: Marriage has always been an exchange of benefits? Expert: Feelings are incidental, ranking third. Ma Teng: Traditional marriage has a social division of labor in it, as well as a variety of demands such as the continuation of children, raising children and preventing old age. When you say this, I think of Lu You and Tang Wan. They should be very loving. But her mother-in-law didn’t like this daughter-in-law. This daughter-in-law had no daughter-in-law. In the end, they still hiccupped and separated, leaving behind the eternally famous phrase “钗头凤”. Chen Zhiwu: Many people say that Professor Chen sees everything from an economic and financial perspective, and he puts the interests first or whatever. In fact, they should understand it in turn, because I think that the relationship between people, including the relationship between men and women, should be based more on love and emotions than on interests; therefore, through the perspective of interests first Find out the content of interest exchanges in marriage, family, and friend relationships-In fact, many people in today’s Chinese society complain that what friends, family relationships, etc. are, in the end, the interests come first. In my opinion, in order to change this situation, we must first understand what these relationships are for. With a clear understanding, we can consciously and as far as possible separate the interest-exchange relationship from marriage, family, and affection, and the market can achieve it.Realize, let our friend relationship, family relationship, husband and wife relationship, male and female relationship be put more in love and affection, can be more pure. This is why I have mentioned in many articles that the changes experienced by American society, especially in the twentieth century, are actually very large. The reason why I use the United States as a reference is because China is undergoing a similar transformation. For example, in the United States in the 1960s, about 25% of adults over the age of 18, whether male or female, were single. By 2006, 48% of American adults were single. By 2019, more than half and more than 50% of adults are single. What is the driving force behind these changes? In the past, many people included Americans, Europeans, not to mention Chinese and Indians. Because there was no financial market, no insurance products, no lending products, no pension funds, no government benefits, so in order to solve the challenges of life, death, and illness, people At a certain age, you must get married and start a family. Because by adopting a family to prevent old age, you can feel secure about future births, old ages, deaths, and deaths, so you do n’t need to worry about what happens. But now, there are more and more refined products available in financial markets. Many people may not have such concerns now. So this is why individual freedom can be achieved after economic development, especially as financial markets become more developed. Ma Teng: Bring more possibilities, right? Chen Zhiwu: With the financial and other markets, for the independence and freedom of personal personality, there is no need to marry a person who has no feelings and live a lifetime. Many people used to say that finance is important to ordinary people, and what does it have to do with us? I said, the relationship is very big. Because with finance, the choice of who to marry can be very different. Ma Teng: If our material needs are not so dependent on marriage now, or if it is done through a contract, and love is more important, why do we still have a marriage system? Chen Zhiwu: Because today’s financial markets and other markets have not yet reached a perfect level, for many people, the value of a marriage contract relationship is still very high. Ma Teng: Just now we talked a lot about marriage. When we talk about marriage, we will talk about weddings. I have a friend who took an eleventh holiday, attended seven weddings, and followed seven members. The wedding brought him a heavy financial burden, how do you look at the phenomenon of Chinese wedding followers. There is also a 100-day banquet for children. Generally, there will be one person in charge of accounting, and the guest will send one.Red envelopes, then make a note. It was a very happy thing. With such arrangements of red envelopes and arrangements with members, how do you look at this phenomenon? Chen Zhiwu: I mentioned in my book on “Finance and General Education” because originally, in traditional societies such as China and India, they like to exchange gifts and gifts. People used to say that the culture of our etiquette has always been developed. This is traditional virtue. In fact, this is not only the Chinese tradition, but also the tradition of all traditional societies. Because the truth is quite simple, the so-called gift-to-reward exchange is actually an intertemporal financing arrangement. What does this mean? Because our family has a banquet, such as marrying a daughter-in-law or a daughter-in-law, the expenses are relatively large at this time, so people have come up with a trick a long time ago. Since it takes so much money to marry a daughter-in-law to start a family, gifts are passed by relatives and friends Help me. I ’ll pay them back when they have a happy event in the future. Thus, there is a gift money for each other. Ma Teng: With the members. Chen Zhiwu: The so-called gift money is actually helping my family to withstand the pressure caused by the large one-time expenditure. However, it is a gift-giving relationship. Next time you wait for your family to hold a banquet or build a house or buy a house, When your family also has a one-time large expenditure, I will pay you back the gift money, plus a little extra return. In this sense, Once the financial market is developed, the tradition of giving and receiving will gradually disappear, because finance can provide better solutions. This is why I have lived in the United States for so many years. Americans basically do n’t give gifts, do n’t give gifts, and do n’t give gifts. However, (parts money) These practices will eventually be eliminated because more and more people realize that it is not necessary It is too burdensome. Now that there are many ways to choose from various financial lending, I don’t need to achieve the purpose of financing by collecting money and gift money. <img class = "" data-ratio = "0.662963" data-src = "https://mmbiz.qpic.cn/mmbiz_jpg/vE1zdzwTb4rcibpibHShPQ1GYwOaibnjCWibibM8WEA0yyicav2z4tttw42WoPQsmIQEpICtxXwxDxwxDxwxDxwwDxxwwDxwrxDxwwDxwrxDwxDxwwDxwwda-type = "jpeg" data-w = "1080" _width = "516.594px" src = "https://img.huxiucdn.com/article/content/201912/17/1717426714.jpg?imageView2/2/w / 1000 / format / jpg / interlace / 1 / q / 85 "crossorigin =" anonymous "data-fail =" 0 "style =" "> Ma Teng: We talked about marriage just now. If we do n’t follow the crowd, why do we have to hold a wedding? Do you think a wedding is necessary? Chen Zhiwu: As an important ceremony, the wedding must be held. Ma Teng: Why? Chen Zhiwu: The truth can be said in two aspects. First, for marriage parties, in any case, marriage is an important milestone in life. Then, through weddings and ceremonies, married couples have a sense of ritual, and they can remember that at that time and on that day, the two sides made a promise of “old heads to old age, sharing the troubles”. Moreover, in the future, especially after getting old, I look back and there is still such a step, whether it is romantic or other feelings, you can retain these good memories. Ma Teng: I remember a long time ago when I watched a movie called “The Moonlight Man” with a heroine. She said that the reason why my first marriage was unsuccessful was because I did not have a wedding. So my second marriage must be a grand wedding. Does the wedding, like all ceremonies, have a deterrent effect? Chen Zhiwu: If you speak a little academically, in traditional society and even in modern society, wedding ceremony is an important way to strengthen the binding force of a marriage contract, and it is a very specific arrangement that increases the cost of a marriage breach. Ma Teng: Do you think the marriage system and human nature are contradictory to a certain extent? Chen Zhiwu: Because of human nature’s pursuit of self-interest, plus two different people, what they are thinking and planning, Zhang San will never know exactly what Li Si is thinking. Because the marriage relationship is very special, but the essence is the same as other contractual relationships. It is a long-term commitment that spans time. But this long-term commitment is what we mean by eachother, white-headed to old,Can these promises be fulfilled? This is everyone, no matter whether they are going to get married or are already married, there is always no way to say in their hearts that the other party’s promise will definitely not have to worry about in the future. Because of this, traditional society attaches great importance to wedding rituals, which are the key way to add reliability to the marriage contract. In India, they value weddings much more than the Chinese. Especially for wealthy families in India, the wedding ceremony is a three-day, three-night or even four-day-four-night ritual, which is very long, and invited thousands or even more than 3,000 guests. Ma Teng: In fact, like all rituals, it is a deterrent. Don’t betray him / her. Chen Zhiwu: Yes, that’s the truth. It turns out that there is no formal court in traditional society and no formal justice to help you implement the promise of a marriage contract, so you need to rely on custom to solve it. How do these customs work? For example, if you invite more than a thousand of your relatives, friends, and colleagues you know and those you do n’t know, of course, the cost is high, but the advantage is that all your friends and relatives on both sides are invited over Witness the two of you’s promises to each other, and if one party breaks the contract in the future, if he flees, his / her reputation and reputation will be greatly damaged. It’s important to increase the reliability of your wedding commitment through this pressure. The wedding is not just for fun, this kind of fun is to let many people witness the promise of marriage and raise the cost of default on either side. A healthy capital market is a prerequisite for asset income Ma Teng: For more than 40 years of reform and opening up, there is a phenomenon that the growth of asset income far exceeds the growth of labor income. We often say that you are catching up with a good opportunity. When you buy a house or buy a better stock, the value of wealth increases far more than the income you earn from working hard and working in one position. How do you look at such a phenomenon? Chen Zhiwu: In fact, since human society has settled and farmed, the historical law is that the growth rate of property income and asset income is higher than the growth rate of labor income. For example, in the agricultural society, the reason why landlords can make more money is because they own land assets, land assets can be rented out, or they hire a lot of people to help him cultivate, which is used to grow food and traffic Go and sell. In an industrial society, the income growth rate of those who possess industrial assets such as plant and equipment can grow much faster than the income of workers without assets. Later in the 20th century, those who had financial assets,Its income grows fastest, both faster than labor income, and faster than land capital and industrial capital. Ma Teng: Snowball. Chen Zhiwu: In the past 40 years, Chinese society has also made us feel first-hand that if you have more property and more investment, the increase in wealth generated by asset income may be greater than the increase in wages and labor income Many more. That’s why Buffett said that if you can’t make money while lying down or sleeping when you’re in your 40s or 50s, you’re too bad. What he said was quite simple. It requires investment, assets and property. I said before that China’s GDP growth rate must be very high. Because most people only have labor income and no asset income, the Chinese can only rely on the channel of labor income to share the benefits of economic growth. In American society and other market economy societies, in addition to labor income, people have more property income. They do not need to rely solely on labor income to share the benefits of economic growth. <iframe height = "400" width = "710" src = "https://v.qq.com/iframe/player.html?vid=a303607vjdc&tiny=0&auto=0 "frameborder =" 0 "allowfullscreen =" "> </ iframe> Video: Wages can’t keep up with rising prices? Expert: Do you have “income after bed”? Ma Teng: Speaking of property income, we have to mention China ’s capital market. China ’s capital market can be said to have endless topics every year, such as the science and technology innovation board this year. Board, motherboard, science and technology board, strategic emerging board, as well as small and medium board, many boards. What do you think is the most critical point for the development of China’s capital market, and how does it make itself a market more trusted by investors and help everyone get more property income. Chen Zhiwu: For modern society, theoretically, the value-added space for financial assets should be more promising than other physical assets. I have a prerequisite for this statement. Financial markets and capital markets must develop well, rather than turning the capital market into a place where bad coins drive out good coins. Because Once the capital market becomes a place where bad coins drive out good coins, relying on financial investment to bring considerable returns and reliable returns becomes an unrealizable story, just like driving a duck to a treeThe same is unrealistic. I would like to emphasize one point. In the past 40 years, China’s capital market has achieved great success. In 1990, China’s capital market had just begun. By 2019 today, China’s capital market is becoming more complete in all aspects, from hedge fund industry, private equity industry, PE, VC to stock market, various boards, GEM, SME board, science and technology board, main board Wait, there are many insurance markets. The development of the financial market in the past 40 years has really achieved a lot, and it is remarkable. But while acknowledging these achievements, we must also see China’s stock market, policy intervention, and administrative intervention. In addition, in our opinion, can the financial market and capital market be able to make use of the resource allocation it should play and give people a chance to increase property income? There is a fundamental change. Is it possible? The key point is assets. The pricing cannot be misplaced too much. If the pricing of assets is too misplaced, it will be easy to put the cart before the horse. Take the simplest example. Just like a few years ago, many people still remember that a company can change its name to P2P, which can make the stock price rise and fall for many days. This shows that once this capital market is like this, when everyone is going to rush to pursue Internet financial companies, no matter whether it is good or bad, regardless of the prospect, they are willing to buy more such stocks. This will bring an inevitable result, as long as If you change your company name to P2P, your stock price will rise a lot. In this way, let us see that once the capital market ’s pricing of assets is completely disordered, and after so many bubbles have formed, many young people in the society, capable and incapable, and other social resources , All invested in the field of Internet finance. In this way, it reflects that because the asset pricing and the stock market pricing are completely misplaced, the human resources and other resources of the entire society have been excessively directed to areas that should not go. In the end, the social cost of swarming is also Very big, this is a very specific lesson. If the pricing of assets is misplaced, it will mess up. There is also a specific example. In China for so many years, because the stock code ended because of 8 or 9, everyone is more willing to buy. In this way, more entrepreneurs are encouraged not to think about themselves. The real main business of the company is on those things that do the so-called capital operation, nothingness, nothing to do, and have no effect on the actual main business. In this way, the time of social resources, human resources, entrepreneurs and entrepreneurs is guided to the wrong place, which is also something that should not happen in the capital market. Ma Teng: In the past two days, there is a very large Internet giant Alibaba.It was chosen to be listed in Hong Kong, China. What do you think of Alibaba’s choice? Chen Zhiwu: I saw a report yesterday saying that their stock code in (China) Hong Kong, choose 9988, which is also a place to enter superstition . I hope that Ali will focus more on business, not on superstitions of nothingness. What about 9988, can it really bring more returns to investors because the stock code is 9988? I don’t believe this. Back to Ali Group, there are other companies that may not only be listed in the United States, but also (China) Hong Kong and even A shares I think this is the right approach. Especially considering the current international political environment, geopolitics is very different from the past 40 years. Geopolitics has not been very important in the past 40 years, and geopolitics will be very important in the next 40 years. At this time, not only should your company be listed in the United States or other countries, you should also consider listing in (China) Hong Kong or even the Mainland In this way, no matter which direction geopolitics goes in the future, the source of your company’s financing, the financing channels, and the scenario of evaluating and judging your company’s performance and development direction are not just relying on a certain stock market, only on a certain One capital market, but relying on multiple stock markets, reduces the risk of the entire company’s future development. <img class = "" data-ratio = "0.662963" data-src = "https://mmbiz.qpic.cn/mmbiz_jpg/vE1zdzwTb4rcibpibHShPQ1GYwOaibnjCWibnicxiaoM767KsmsXbF9x4aMkFzG5105HricSpcBEQ_wpwpwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwqwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww,wwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww,wwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww hot water temperature pumping switch, water pumping switch, water pumping switch w = "1080" _width = "516.594px" src = "https://img.huxiucdn.com/article/content/201912/17/1717438525.jpg?imageView2/2/w/1000/format/jpg/interlace/ 1 / q / 85 "crossorigin = "anonymous" data-fail = "0" style = ""> Ma Teng: Will you invest in Alibaba’s stock? Chen Zhiwu: Just like the Buffett we just talked about, I do n’t like to go after hot spots and fashion. Which thing gets fired the most is not going to follow suit. I also hope that many young people should think of everyone looking so glamorous, so fashionable investment products or stocks, as if that is the one that can best enable them to pick up money and realize their wealth dreams, not necessarily the best investment. Numerous studies have shown that the pursuit of hot spots to follow the trend is often the best way to accelerate the shrinking of your wealth. One of the ways to avoid shrinking your wealth is not to follow the trend and not to pursue those hot spots. Ma Teng: I look at Buffett’s latest stock position. His first was RH, a high-end furniture manufacturer. I was surprised when I saw it. I think there must be his inner logic in it. It’s really not Google, Facebook, Alibaba as we imagined. He chose an industry that seemed very unpopular. Chen Zhiwu: Now many old industries, especially in the United States, many of the remaining companies in the old industries have considerable oligopoly status. The two or three companies can survive, and their global status will be very high, and his pricing power is also relatively strong. Relatively speaking, these companies may not have as many Chinese companies and American new high-tech companies’ stock prices falling or doubling. The oligopoly companies in the traditional industry, they may not grow very fast, but they will be very reliable and very sustainable. Technology + Inclusive Finance makes individuals better invest in themselves Ma Teng: This year’s “Double Eleven” is also the first time I have experienced “Double Eleven” shopping. I have an interesting experience this time. In fact, the consumer finance on the Internet actually does a better job. When I buy something on Jingdong, I have a Jingdong white bar. If I borrow money from it to buy something, it will give me a stronger discount. What do you think of China’s emerging consumer finance of the Internet? Chen Zhiwu: I think this is a very good development. The white strips of JD.com, ant gold clothing’s calyx, borrowing, etc. I have recently seen some studies and found that these new consumer financial instruments are important to boost consumption. There is a direct contribution to helping consumption upgrade. Especially young people, the income is not high, but the willingness to consume is the strongest in a lifetime, and the need for consumer expenditure is also the highest in life. if heOur current wages are not yet in place, and the prospects for future income growth are very good. These tools can contribute a lot to alleviating the contradiction of their income more in the future, but more consumption today; Little white bars can also wait, these financial products can help a lot. I have said before that many people may talk about consumer finance. It ’s not good if you look at investment finance! You use finance to help them spend more. Is n’t this a waste? Is n’t it encouraging an overdraft in the future? Actually, I really like some research done by Professor Seligman of Columbia University after 1926. One was that it was unnecessary to find that Americans were worried about the negative effects of consumer credit at that time: At that time, many Americans worried that this would It will make Americans more and more overdrawn in the future, more and more uncontrollable spending, and more irresponsible behavior. His research found that consumer finance has made Americans’ financial discipline better, and family financial management practices, concepts, and even occupations have been born out of it. He found that because of the monthly payment and the challenge of the monthly payment brought by borrowing, people have become more advanced in planning all aspects of their future income and expenses. On the other hand, he put forward a theory, saying that there is no difference between consumption and investment, and it is a mistake to treat the words consumption and investment separately in the text. He said there was no non-investment consumption. He gave some examples. You could have bought a suit for 200 yuan. Why borrow a suit for a thousand yuan suit? Isn’t this waste, isn’t it consumption? He may say that you can buy a suit for 100 yuan or 200 yuan, but when you wear this to look for work or sell, others will know at first glance that your life and work are too unsuccessful. , Wear a suit that is so cheap and so broken; if you spend a thousand dollars to buy a suit that is more decent and more representative of the success you have achieved, when you do sales, when you go to find a job, you are successful The probability can be improved a lot. In this sense, borrowing money to buy a good suit is actually an investment in your personal human capital, not a wasteful consumption. <img class = "" data-ratio = "0.662963" data-src = "https://mmbiz.qpic.cn/mmbiz_jpg/vE1zdzwTb4rcibpibHShPQ1GYwOaibnjCWibJ3cVvib6nr5OwfFicyia9ibjXseLpZaq1Gfw2WxFix3bWxFix3D-WBC3D-WBCtype = "jpeg" data-w = "1080" _width = "516.594px" src = "https://img.huxiucdn.com/article/content/201912/17/1717439980.jpg?imageView2/2/w/1000 / format / jpg / interlace / 1 / q / 85 "crossorigin =" anonymous "data-fail =" 0 "style =" "> Ma Teng: How do you look at some of the actions of Internet giants in the financial field? Chen Zhiwu: Like Ant Financial and JD Finance, they have made a lot of efforts in recent years. Through specific practices, we can see the millions of farmers in the countryside, as well as the grass-roots social groups, especially small and micro enterprises, and real micro-enterprises. With financial support, they were unable to start businesses and were unable to do Some petty business can now be done, and it will have a great impact on their children’s education, life, all aspects, and choice of school. At this time, we must never forget to not be able to kill all consumer finance with a single stick, and even some insurance finance operations and space for existence. No matter how it changes, the essence of finance is “intertemporal value exchange.” Ma Teng: I have read an economist who has such a statement, he said what the essence of Internet finance is, the essence of Internet finance is finance, and we must be awed by finance. He is particularly wary of Internet companies, especially Internet giants, because of the convenience of customer acquisition or the control of traffic, to invade the financial field, what do you think of his views? Chen Zhiwu: In 2013 and 2014, I mentioned in some articles, whether it is Internet finance or other mobile phone finance, or the original physical branch finance, finance or finance. The essence of finance is the intertemporal value exchange, so the risk of default, runaway risks, and insolvency risks brought by the intertemporal value exchange will not be fundamentally changed by the Internet. Ma Teng: China’s savings rate is very high. The Chinese love to save money. I also love saving money. However, after we saw mobile payment and consumer finance, for example, when I was spending my own money, sometimes I did n’t feel it. It was tied to my salary card, and it was spent, and not so much. I consciously want to set a goal for myself to save money. So the current technological development or more applications of our financial instruments, will it change the concept of Chinese savings and reduce China’s savings rate? < </div> </article> <script src='//unpkg.com/valine/dist/Valine.min.js'></script> <div id="vcomments"></div> <script> new Valine({ el: '#vcomments', appId: 'nFXLD31mFjDHlrEDx3OQWstS-gzGzoHsz', appKey: 'GhTuxYTHv3w2aqSJ0urXJov5', }) </script> <style> #veditor { background-image: url(https://image.bestzuo.cn/images/20200708160947.gif!getwebp); background-size: contain; background-repeat: no-repeat; background-position: right; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0); resize: vertical } img.vimg { transition: all 1s /* 旋转时间为 1s */ } img.vimg:hover { transform: rotate(360deg); -webkit-transform: rotate(360deg); -moz-transform: rotate(360deg); -o-transform: rotate(360deg); -ms-transform: rotate(360deg); } #vcomments .vcards .vcard { padding: 15px 20px 0 20px; border-radius: 10px; margin-bottom: 15px; box-shadow: 0 0 4px 1px rgba(0, 0, 0, .12); 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