“I just want to make a cool product for you”
Looking back at the end of the year, the “2019 Changemaker of the Year” list selection started, trying to select those industry leaders who are constantly exploring the boundaries of the industry and tapping the real value in the field.
The changemakers are at the forefront of the field and open up new opportunities in risk. They will focus on transformative power, forward-looking power, influence power, and tenacity.
To B resurgence, in the battle of the new “BAT” team, we interviewed Naoing CEO Chen Hang (no move), an office business management software with 200 million mobile phones installed.
Today, this hot product manager, besieged by the needs of various fields, was once regarded as the biggest Loser of Alibaba. Many people “cannot see it” because he lost two rich resources in the hands of big manufacturers. The fight of the big guys. Regardless of the dignity of the man or the unwillingness of the loser, he must turn up.
Differentiation is a necessary condition for his success. Taking the creation of pain points with customers as the entry point, he used the rapid and iterative style of the Internet to overturn the traditional top-down module form of the enterprise service, and made a foray into the management system of tens of millions of enterprises, changing the management model of the enterprise.
Text | Zhang Wei
Interview | Zhang Wei Huang Zhen 曜
Edit | Barry
Video Director | Lu Fang
Giant melee.
At the end of 2019, the field of corporate collaborative office services is unprecedentedly full of acrid gunpowder.
Alibaba ’s number of users has exceeded 200 million; Tencent has maximized the advantage of interoperability with WeChat; previously, byte bounce also accelerated the formation of troops on the To B battlefield.
Increasing differentiation, enthusiastic comparisons inside and outside the circle, the drums are getting more and more dense … Despite this, Nai CEO Chen Hang (Hua ” “No trick”) on the contrary it seems to be getting more relaxed.
Even saying that he is more eager than ever for the next competition, market variables, and truly aggressive opponents, “Market variables are good things, and it ’s good to meet real aggressive opponents, you can become more Well, right, it would be bad if you hit invincible players all over the world. “
He can’t live without his opponent. Yang Jianwei, the chairman of Lanling, one of the three major domestic OA service providers, who has been cooperating with Dingguo, has no comment on this.
He chats with the new version of “BAT” which is going to be staged on the corporate collaborative office track. It has no tactics, is full of confidence, and is irrevocable, because “No one understands SMEs better than ours. More profoundly, no one is so neurotic to do this as we are. “
“Fighter”, “Crazy”, “Metamorphosis”, “Extreme” … In the course of the recent 5 years of iteration, these words have become mediaThe body is annoyed by the labels posted on Wuzhao.
Ding Ding is Chen Hang’s “fruit” after being put to death, and it is a key blow for him to prove himself and defend the team.
In May 2014, Wuzhao took 6 product managers to settle in Ma Yun’s house at the lakeside garden. For 9 months, he took the team from the C-end social product “reciprocation” to the predecessor “working circle”. Previously, he was once considered Ali’s most famous Loser. Ali used to snatch WeChat’s “contacts”, asking for someone, asking for money and money, and Ma Yun’s platform, but soon lost the homogeneity with his opponent. How high-profile the trend is, how horrible it is.
The next project is that “Yitao” (the official promotional shopping platform under Alibaba) was closed in 2015, and then the “reciprocation” was defeated. Chen Hang’s two star projects in Ali did not succeed Unwilling and disrespectful, he stumbled to find a way to “go out.”
But the real crux behind this story is that in a mature giant business system, a person or a team is placed in the naked entrepreneurial state of “looking for people, looking for money, looking for directions”. What kind of chemical reaction can occur.
Finding the direction, that is, refocusing on the differentiation of the product, is the hardest and most important one. Now that social networking isn’t done, try socializing in work scenarios. What should the work circle do? What are the pain points of SMEs? In the end, Shi Nan, a small boss of a computer trading company with more than 80 people, became the window and opportunity for him to open a “differentiation”. At that time, Shi Nan was looking for an online management software. It took a few weeks to determine a vendor with an offer of 400,000, and all the employees to work off-site for two weeks. The cost is too high and the functions are fancy, but what Shi Nan wants is to unify the work on one platform. By chance, Shi Nan’s pain point turned into a sharp commercial dagger and stabbed Wuzhao at once. “I just want to make a product that you can use coolly.” Wuzhao and his team need to make a product that addresses the needs of real customers. This also touched Shi Nan and participated in the co-creation with Wu Zhao.
At that time, Wuzhao and his team started to be a little different.
Kelin said that she didn’t look down on herself. “I don’t think many people would look at it.” But she was also attracted by this fiery fighting atmosphere.
No communication skills, as long as he seizes the opportunity, he will sell it. Klein remembers that in 2014, Dingguo 1.0 had not yet been released. At that time, she was still in charge of the group’s media launch business. She did not recruit the door to seek resource support. Without any shame, she exchanged business when she came up. Nail, tell you about it. “After installing the installation package, the idea of Nail is covered by splitting his head and covering his face without a stroke. Clinn heard” feeling very shocked. “At the same level,” Why does he have such a high mind and vision? . “
The team converged under the “crazy differentiation” of no move.
But in the small boss Shi Nan, for nearly 2 years, he once thought that Wu Zhao was a person with ordinary expression ability. During the co-creation, Wuzhao showed a modest humility, “It is reasonable to say that Alibaba has many advanced working methods, thinking methods, and working mechanisms, right, but he didn’t say that Shi Nan was here from beginning to end. Alibaba should do this without saying a word. “Instead, he kept asking Shi Nan,” Why is this? You tell me, I don’t understand, you teach me. “” Excellent employee of a Fortune 500 company , In front of an ordinary trading company selling computers into white. “Shi Nan said. The shock occurred in early 2016. Dingao convened thirty or forty co-creation partners. No one stood on the stage, no PPT, and did not make any preparations. He talked for two hours, torrential, logical, and instantly, off stage Shi Nan feels like no one has changed.
Humility is actually the strategy of Wuzhao in the face of SME co-creation partners. Shi Nan realized after a long time, “He is a miner, not an exporter.”
The strategy of no move allowed him and Shi Nan to establish an indestructible trust. “To what extent did you finally create together? The little friends can take over Shi Nan’s administrative, personnel, and financial positions. Can you do it? No company on the planet can do this. If you don’t recruit them, Shi Nan, I will calculate for your company’s attendance this month, and I will do it for your company’s financial statements this month. “
Discover the real needs through co-creation, and be humble enough to gain the trust of co-creation partners. Coupled with the iteration of small steps and fast running, Wuzhao will soon be in the business field of “slow business”. Created an Internet-style play.
Log, speed punch … All the requirements are based on the real scenes of Shi Nans. The trick of no move is that if there is a demand, you must first rush people.No matter what the conditions are, the most exaggerated thing is that until two or three years after the co-creation, Shi Nan didn’t know that at that time, Ruodai Alizhong had no complete development team structure, no IOS front-end, no testing, and even a development There is no minimum closed-loop team for App, and a bunch of people are all products and Android front-ends.
“Have you ever seen the product development logic of Dingding?” Shi Nan concludes that every time I pay attention, What exactly does the user solve in this matter and what does the user do? The scene gets better. “For example, if you want to make a car, many companies first make two wheels and then make the car shell, steering wheel, and engine. Two years later, the car is composed, but it ’s not like that. The idea is What problem I will solve first, such as how to make it faster than walking, get a skateboard first, and tell the user that you are slippery, some people say that I try, it is faster than before, but this direction is not easy to control, okay, That adds control, it becomes a scooter, and the scooter has to be pedaled, which is a bit laborious. Then add an engine or a battery and change the battery car. Later, how to do this shelter from wind and rain … Finally it became a car. Did you know that? The kind of high-speed iteration, from small to large, is too great.
Along these product logics, we have achieved a smashing leap forward: version 1.0 is communication, version 2.0 is collaboration, and version 3.0 is the platform … According to the “2018 China Intelligence” released by CBNData The “Mobile Office Industry Trend Report” shows that the size of the smart mobile office market is expected to reach 50 billion yuan by 2020. In the current mobile office market, the share of nailing is the first, and the number of active users ranks first, exceeding the second Sum to the tenth active user.
During the historical competition between DingDing and WeChat, DingDing released smart hardware products such as smart front desk at the super conference in 2017. From software to hardware, DingDing has also cooperated with DingDing and domestic OA. Yang Jianwei, chairman of Lanling, one of the three service providers, was quite surprised.
This action was considered a watershed in the gap between the company and WeChat by Yang Jianwei, an enterprise veteran who has been ploughing into the Saas field for nearly 20 years. “There must be someone behind the intelligent hardware. All intelligent hardware vendors have no choice in the end. It needs a super entrance. This super entrance must belong to the person with the largest organizational structure. And he ca n’t be someone else. After that, the manufacturers of intelligent hardware can only follow him. “
Fate is different sooner or later. In Yang Jianwei’s view, this matter has become a decisive advantage.
When you are relatively weak, you use the Internet to play aggressively. This is the characteristic of no move. Yang Jianwei often laughs without a move and says, “I am not your bandit, I am not a soldier, you are a soldier, I Tai Swen, I ’m a big client, I think about others and think about how to help him. It ’s valuable.He will naturally miss me. “But no trick is not what he thinks is what I can do to survive.”
Unlike Shi Nan, the state of “barbarians at the door” without tricks and nails made Yang Jianwei defend for a time, sending a small team to cooperate with nails, like undercover, large base areas Any action is far away. “I know how you grew up, but what I’m doing here, the small team doesn’t know. I don’t want to be too close to him and give him my core strength.”
The high customer acquisition cost, the brutal aggressiveness of the nails, and the traffic on the nailed platform make it easy for ISVs (independent software developers) to make such a choice: to maintain the necessary cooperation, but have to Alienation.
This tests the pattern and vision of no tricks and nails: can you upgrade from a barbarian at the door to an ecological builder.
“In the early days, everyone flew to fight the local tyrants and divide the fields. After that, he said that General Yang, you Lan Ling will follow this ecology, and everyone will do it together.” Yang Jianwei said.
Of course, Wu Jian certainly knows Yang Jianwei’s scruples. He continued to explain that after the 2017 super conference, Yang Jianwei said, “We better have capital cooperation, or we will always have two hearts.”
A year later, Lanling received hundreds of millions of dollars in investment and jointly built a service ecosystem for the company. From strategic cooperation to strategic investment, no explanation was made for integration, not integration.
The difference between words is different, “Union, he uses me, I use him, and fusion, there is me in you and you in me.” Yang Jianwei said.
As the nails become more powerful, the soldiers have no tricks, and the more they develop, the more delicate they are.
Now, he rarely uses “collective personality” to describe the “anti-human” side of the stigma of human criticism. He will still emphasize the transparent management that can be achieved through stabbing. Severe product managers who yell at people at all times, even if they go swimming with the team, care about everyone’s posture. The harsh product manager even talked to us about “gray management.”
“ You have to believe in people. Sometimes you have to be tolerant, I think there is a bit of gray in management. If you always pursue the ultimate, you entrust these things to others in your way and method At the time, what others did was generally not very eye-catching … without this gray scale, others could not grow up. “In the process of doing nails, his management method is also constantly optimized. “You see people as people. In the face of transparent tools, you have to master grayscale.”
Some time ago, I changed a lane while driving and violated the rules. I received a ticket for no move. In the subsequent reminder text message, in addition to the notification of the violation, there was a sentence, “Based on your driving habits in the past 30 days, Performance is good, no penalty will be imposed for this violation. ” “This is grayscale. Transparency does not mean that there is no grayscale. I think sometimes it is necessary to digitizeIn the face of technology, to maintain respect for the individual, of course, we must take the creation of the entire organization as the core. At this time, it is the art of management. “
Shi Nan remembers that a technical bull who once nailed himself wanted to leave, and shouted that many people, including Shi Nan, went to his house to persuade the bull. Must get him. Later Shi Nan thought, just walk away, change another, and Ali has no shortage of talents, right? But later, Shi Nan wanted to understand that the group of people who came out with the nails together in the early days created the taste that had settled down, and technical skills can never replace it.
“These are seeds, and we need to rely on them to influence more people.”
The fire is still burning. The data shows that as of June 30, 2019, the number of users in Dingding exceeded 200 million, and the number of corporate organizations exceeded 10 million. Also this June, in the new round of organizational restructuring, Naigu merged into the Alibaba Cloud Intelligent Business Group, which is considered to be an important step for Alibaba Cloud to break new growth bottlenecks and open up new development space for the To B market. On February 16th they will hold the “5th Anniversary New Product Launch Conference and Ecological Conference”.
In October 2019, there was no way to give myself a three-day vacation and to go to places where others don’t. On a tropical island, Wu Zhao found an uninhabited area below the observation deck, surrounded by the sea, on three sides of cliffs and forests, without access, and the scenery was exceptionally bright.
Find the way, so he boarded the unmanned beach.
The following is an interview with Wu Zhao:
I have been absorbing in the past few years, and have absorbed a lot in the past
: From “communicating” to nailing, it is actually the process from To C to To B. There are many pits in the middle. What did you gain from this process?
No move: “Communication” is a valuable experience for us. Without “Communication”, there is no nailing. The first is to let us know what to do as a social communication product, and the second is to train the team. In fact, most of the original team is a “reciprocal” team, very good, dare to fight hard, this team is brave enough to persist, otherwise it would have run away. Third, the opportunity just happened, because the depth of the usual research is not enough. We encountered some co-creation companies that can deeply understand the pain points of these small and medium enterprises, and the top leaders are willing to change the way of work. I think it’s the right place for everyone.
: The period of “communicating” is actually YY, but it is totally different to do nails, and co-creation is an opportunity. How did you build this methodology?
No tricks: We do n’t understand social products or communication products. This is the first thing we figure out, that is, we ca n’t do things completely by operating means. This is our growth. The second is that the group is also growing, giving greater tolerance in these unknown areas, and trying to let front-line students make decisions and not bother. At the back is the right place and the right people. They ran into a field where they didn’t take us seriously. They all felt that our people don’t understand software and enterprises. Can really move in the right direction.
: What do you think of failure?
No tricks: First of all, “communicating” is definitely not a failure, it is a process of our growth. Your attitude to failure is key. For example, if you maintain an optimistic mentality every time you fail, keep your reflection on yourself, and be able to really implement something, every failure is a cornerstone of success. But don’t talk about failure. In fact, it is very difficult to act. Many people often talk about failures and mistakes, and they move very little. I don’t think there is a real integration of knowledge and action.
I have n’t reached the point where knowledge and action are united. Actually, luck is still being done, not that we have improved a lot of things on failure, and there is luck in it.
: Which part do you like the most in the process of rapid growth?
No tricks: When making a product, how to discover new scenarios, new values, and discuss with customers how to realize the digitalization of this industry is quite interesting. You will feel that you are growing, not consuming, and your view of the world will become more and more real. You can feel the digital pulse of this society, which is a cool thing.
I have been absorbing in the past few years. It turned out that our understanding of digitalization is very deep. In fact, the more companies and industries you contact, the more you will find that you are more like a frog at the bottom of a well. You feel like you understand the Internet. In fact, when it is combined with the industry, the value it generates often exceeds your imagination. Seeing this kind of thing is true. Before you see it, you may not really feel it.
: This is the point that makes you feel particularly cool?
No tricks: It ’s a great way to open your eyes. Just like sometimes we go on a trip. I especially like to run to places where nobody is.I have never seen it here, you have a sense of accomplishment.
: So are you more and more humble in your nailing process?
No tricks: Keeping humble and talking is easy, but it ’s actually not easy. Sometimes in the face of danger, when you are completely at a loss, people will return to their nature and maintain a fear that will make you particularly humble. But in your daily life, you really remain humble from the bottom of your heart, often because you see the world. Even if you see a lot of good people, you will not feel like a drop in the ocean when you see more. You will return to the standard of doing things and being a person.
Between transparency and grayscale is the art of management
: In 2019, what was the right decision or the more important one?
No tricks: We used to serve small and medium-sized enterprises and thought that many products are general-purpose products, but as companies use them deeper and deeper, they will become more and more integrated with their industries and businesses Profoundly, at this time we suddenly realized that it was not reliable to use our original thinking of pure productization.
This year (2019) we have gradually realized that a product is not the same as a platform. How can we truly support the depth of the industry? This is the biggest change this year.
We are beginning to know that the true digital working method is not only communication, but also simple collaboration. Its deep integration with the business actually requires deeper platform support for the whole.
: Will there be some customization in the middle?
No tricks: It is not called customization. In essence, you make a platform. You have to support others to integrate your business. How do you support others to make customizations, like we are a universal chassis for cars? It may be a car, a truck, or an SUV. What is done above is someone else’s thing, how can our base better support various needs.
To better understand the industry, you have to know what are the requirements for making SUVs, but we do not understand SUVs, trucks have truck requirements, but we do not understand trucks, so this is the process we are learning and growing up. .
: In fact, Dingding has always believed in the method of co-creation with enterprises. There are many needs for enterprises. How do you identify which one is done and which is not?
No move: Demand is often a pseudo demand. Real needs are often observed. If the client can make the requirements clear, what do you want, he has done it himself. someAt that time, the needs he gave you have become solutions. In fact, it is not what you want to explore. The things behind it are often difficult to say. This is also related to the depth of co-creation.
When there are more and more customers in the industry, the judgment of priorities is also a test. What to do first and what comes after us are our new challenges.
: How do you balance this energy now? What are your ways to deepen your understanding of an industry?
No tricks: Just spend time with your partner customers. The difference between a startup company and a bigger company is that you are getting farther and farther away from your customers. We have to stay with our customers continuously. You have to see and hear them. From the leader of the company, the management to the employees, what needs and pain points they have, you have to feel for yourself. Sometimes the things you say may not be correct. You have to take the time to observe and research.
How to take time out is really difficult. There are more and more things. How can you take time to observe and think? This is a test. You will become management if you do n’t do it.
: So how do you solve this problem?
No tricks: Learn. This is the benefit of relying on Ali. There is a whole learning system, including many elderly Ali and senior classmates who will share and educate you.
Ms. Ma used to say that it is to use people to do things, and to do things with people. I think I used to do things, and many things are my own decisions. Whoever does it, but when you have more and more things, The coverage is getting wider and wider, and at the same time you want to stay with your customers, then you have to take the time. Now we have to use people to do things, you have to rely on people and believe in people. Sometimes you have to be tolerant and have some grayscale management.
If you are always pursuing the ultimate, without this grayscale, others cannot grow up. Therefore, the process of making nails, including our management methods, is constantly optimized and improved, and we are gradually growing.
: One of the more criticized things is that it ’s unfriendly to individuals, whether it ’s transparent or collective personality. This can be considered as a different perspective on a problem Different solutions provided?
No tricks: Nor is it, really nailing this thing is often the first job. The number one is in front of a very transparent tool. You have to respect the human nature of the individual. Although the collective interest is maximized, we must treat people as human beings. In front of transparent tools, you have to master grayscale instead. If you do everything to be transparent, and you don’t pay attention to individual feelings, you will often overuse it at this time, and there will be no fish in the Qing Dynasty.
Everyone is human, always